This morning, we learn that Hillary Clinton’s popular vote lead over Donald Trump is over 2 million and counting, four times the popular vote lead of Al Gore over George W. Bush in 2000.
Hillary Clinton has a greater popular vote lead than John F. Kennedy in 1960, Richard Nixon in 1978 and Jimmy Carter in 1976.
And now, there is growing evidence of voter irregularities in the states of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, as well as questions about how Hillary Clinton had such a popular vote lead in early voting, including 27 percent of Republicans, in Florida, and then, magically loses the Sunshine State. Evidence of fixing and hacking, maybe by Russian intervention, seems possible.
Was this election rigged, as Donald Trump claimed it would be, but in his favor, rather than against him?
Are we having the Presidency stolen, as many thought in 2000, by Republican led state governments, as in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Florida, although not so in Pennsylvania?
Will we ever know for sure, and is there any point, two weeks after the election, to contest it, and create an uproar, or should we all move on and accept the inevitable, President Elect Donald Trump?
This author is torn, but at this point, with two weeks to absorb the immensity of what has happened, it seems, somehow, pointless to pursue a law suit, as all it will do is further “poison the well”, so to speak.
This is said with a heavy heart and great sadness, but it is time to move on, it seems to me, and allow Trump whatever “honeymoon” he may have, wish him the best, and be ready to challenge him, as it is certain will happen soon, and on a regular basis, over the next four years, and hope for the best in a terrible situation.
Considering that the Russians were hacking prior to the election, it definitely should be investigated regardless, to prevent it in the future and to protect the integrity of our elections.
Serves as a good reminder to have a paper trail.
We are developing tin foil hats, people. How can you hack optical scans and paper ballots like they use in Michigan,?
These are the type of comments I expected if Trump won (by Trump supporters). The reality is the reality.
538 even shot down these rumors.
Well, you can put your money where your mouth is. Jill Stein is raising funds to officially request a recount in those three states.
Personally, I’ll give to a local charity, as the money will do more good. Wasting away in Recount-a-rita-ville.
“looking for my lost shaker of salt….some people say there’s a woman to blame…”
Sorry, Jimmy Buffet..
Here’s where the gap lies :
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/11/21/understanding-undecided-voters/9EjNHVkt99b4re2VAB8ziI/story.html
This possible hacking incident has been reported by CNN, MSNBC, etc.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/hillary-clinton-challenge-results/
According to those computer scientists in the CNN article, it was electronic voting machines that were possibly hacked.
Quite frankly, after this election, I don’t quite have the same trust in conclusions by pollsters like Nate Silver that I used to.
Southern Liberal, I have lost all faith in polls and in media, as a result of this election!
This is NOT 1948, and should NOT have happened as it did in the Truman-Dewey race!
Michigan does not use electronic voting machines cited in the CNN story. The director of balloting in the state came out and said so. It’s s all optical with paper back up.
So, only if you want to make the conspiracy bigger (,,the fix was in, which is what Donald Trump claimed before the election), it’s a non story.
I don’t think it would do any harm to have a recount.
I second that, Rational Lefty. It’s for the sake of calming distrust.
Bush and Obama lawyers are urging the Electoral College to reject Trump unless he sells his business. https://thinkprogress.org/electoral-college-trump-top-lawyers-8a8b6e0ca916#.neyk8uk6n
Russians helped spread fake anti-Hillary news on social media. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html
A foreign power using means to sway another country’ s election to its benefit. Not news. Hasn’t that been a part of the USA,’s foreign policy methods for years?
I think it’s disturbing that a foreign entity is trying to sway our elections. I also think it’s very newsworthy. Americans need to know about such things.
Great point, Paul!
Rational Lefty,
Yes, it is newsworthy, but I don’t think like the character in “Casablanca” we should feign shock that this was going on in Rick’s American Cafe.
I second that Rational Lefty. As I said earlier in the year, the orange buffoon is the Siberian candidate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-keep-looking-away-from-the-elections-most-alarming-story/2016/11/25/83533d3e-b0e2-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html
U.S. intelligence agencies determined that Moscow actively interfered before the vote, which is why I also second what Rational Lefty said.
You see, Paul, many of the Democrats that we’ve talked to in our community are just as concerned as we are that the election was stolen by the Rethuglicans with the help of the Russians.
Re: Russians interfering with propaganda.
I hope our NSA is getting on that. We need to find ways to prevent that from ever happening again. The worst thing we can do is pretend it didn’t happen.
Comey and the FBI helped Trumpolini as well.
Some election fraud occurred in Wisconsin.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/26/election-fraud-complaint-filed-people-voted-total-voters-4-wisconsin-precincts.html
That is an example of why many people are wanting a recount to be done.
Paul – It’s exactly as Southern Liberal said earlier. Various things that happened during this election season (Russians interfering, Comeygate, etc.), has caused people to lose faith in the election process.
Bottom line: Until a recount reassures us that our votes truly mattered, many of us voters will not accept the result.
Did anyone differentiate the fake news disseminated by the Russians during the campaign from the fake news that was aired on The Fox News Channel every day during the campaign? Is Sean Hannity actually a Russian spy?
Perhaps Trump can build a new luxury hotel in Moscow with the Soviet President and call it “Putin on the Ritz”.
As usual, Paul, you have a way with words! LOL
The Winning Progressive blog nailed what we’ve been saying. See the Professor’s latest thread for more info: https://www.theprogressiveprofessor.com/?p=29147
I disagree that the recount is without Hilary’s support now.Her campaign is now actively involved in the recount process.
Again. I think, this is a disingenuous approach, similar to how her entire campaign was run.
Stay on the periphery to appear neutral, when in fact, that is not the case. I had a chuckle when the statement said that they would be involved , but didn’t t think the result would change. Yeah, right.
Paul – Umm…Nobody here has said she’s not joining in the recount effort.
I second that Leia. Sometimes, things he says confuses me too.
Maybe if you read the Professor,’s posting that rational Lefty posted, you wouldn’t be confused. The Professor mentioned the irony if the recount benefited Clinton without her participation.
I pointed out that she WAS actively participating. Less confusing?
Whatever. LOL!
Sorry if I’m not as enthused as most are here for a fruitless effort to overturn the results of the election.
Quite frankly, a month ago we were all moaning and groaning about Trump saying he would not accept the results.
Now, we are beginning to sound like a bunch of tin foil hat people trying to find the right frequency. I am as miffed as anyone here that this yo-yo is going to be Commander in Chief.
The fact is too many voters in key states sat on their duff and didn’t vote because they were upset Bernie was not running and too many Trump supporters cane out of the woodwork and went to the polls. As Pogo once said, “We have met the enemy…and it us.”
Stop trying to blame the bogeyman.
I wouldn’t consider it tin foil hat. People are truly concerned about the integrity of the election.
Read some of the progressive news blogs the Professor has listed and you’ll see that voter suppression is not a bogeyman. It’s a legit concern that the left-wing needs to be fighting.
Wait, I thought the recount in Wisconsin was because there were some inflated tallies forTrump?
So now we are throwing voter suppression into the equation also? How do you quantify that? I read today that some states that allow same day vote registration at the polls are having issues verifying many of those that took advantage of that perk. Fraud? What occurred most–suppression or “fraud”?
Trump agreed with you today. He said he won the popular vote if you subtract the “illegitimate” votes cast.
Meet him at the intersection of voter suppression and voter fraud so everyone can commiserate.
Daily Kos, Common Dreams, Think Progress, Huffington Post, etc. talk about important issues such as climate change, social justice, etc., issues that the mainstream media tends to ignore in favor of celebrity scandals and other non-sense.
Voter suppression occurs more than fraud. High voter turnout generally benefits the Democrats so Republicans have been passing ID laws, making cuts to early voting and creating barriers to voter registration.
For instance, the GOP attacked early voting in NC, trying to keep turnout amongst African Americans down: http://www.bluenc.com/content/reuters-details-nc-gops-concerted-attack-early-voting
There’s now concern that Trump’s administration could broaden voter ID laws. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/will-trump-join-gop-s-voter-id-push-white-house-n689176
Another example of how Republicans cheat.
https://thinkprogress.org/breaking-republicans-block-program-to-register-2-million-illinois-voters-2c975811cf6f?source=collection_home_________4_________—7——4
How the voter ID laws led to disenfranchisement.
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/11/30/voter-id-laws-and-disenfranchisement/
Reason for why Donald Trump did not win over the popular vote was because he did not take Mitt Romney’s 2012 national loss off -3.86 and shift +3.87 to win by at least +0.01.
States in which Donald Trump shifted the minimum +3.87 numbered just 25. By comparison, 2008 Democratic pickup winner Barack Obama hit his needed +7.27 in 43 states. 1992 Democratic pickup winner Bill Clinton, in need of +7.73, reached in 41 states. 1980 Republican pickup winner Ronald Reagan met his necessary +2.07 in 46 states.
I have a map. I don’t know if its image will appear below until I hit “Post It.”
The states in red are ones in which Donald Trump reached a +3.87 shift. Those states in blue are ones in which Trump failed to shift sufficiently in his direction. (And there were states Hillary Clinton shifted in her direction. In fact, there were ten: Arizona, California, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Massachusetts, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Washington.) The ones in red are worth 210 electoral votes. That is 39.03 percent of the 538 electoral votes. Trump had a sufficient margin shift in just 8 of the Top 20 states: New York, Pennsylvania (pickup), Ohio (pickup), Michigan (pickup), Indiana, Tennessee, Missouri, and Wisconsin (pickup). From those Top 20 pickup states, 64 electoral votes flipped from 2012 Democratic to 2016 Republican column. With Trump having carried all 24 states, and 206 electoral votes, won in 2012 by Romney … this is where you have the split outcome. Without having to win over the popular vote, Trump was able to reach the 270.
http://www.270towin.com/maps/nBxYv
http://www.270towin.com/presidential_map_new/maps/nBxYv.png